workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Discussion regarding the World Cup event

what would u do?

Make him change his list but it stands.
6
22%
Penalise his individual result but not the teams
4
15%
Penalise both his and the teams result
15
56%
Other
2
7%
 
Total votes: 27

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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Rabid_Bogscum »

Sann is usually pretty invested in the goings on of the ausbowl community... I'd be interested in his take... Mike ?
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Grumpsh »

So in the end it was decided that giving him 0-0 draws for all his games wasn't fair on the people who beat him and it wasn't deemed ok to make all of his games losses.

So yeah we could have done with the extra point. Would have slingshotted us up a little. And i could have done with not losing 9 NAF rating for that game.

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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Olaf_the_Stout »

Why couldn't they change the wins to draws at least?
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by gregory_n_white »

Why couldn't they change the wins to draws at least?
Suggest at the next world cup everyone in Team Aus does the same.... try to get away with 1020!! The reward is worth the risk. Precedent has been set!

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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Grumpsh »

yeah but nothing in writing sheesh

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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Rabid_Bogscum »

Im not sure how i would have acted on the spot as a TO but giving it some thought i would certainly retroactively turn his wins into draws, draws into losses and let the losses stand... i think :p
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by fnord23 »

There are 2 things to consider here, changing results for the WC tournament whilst ongoing vs changing the eternal NAF ranking results with the benefit of hindsight.

With the former there really is no case; I cant be bothered right now articulating it but something 912 coaches something mountainous data entry something language barriers something something.
That said, its a pity one of the other 80+ necro coaches didnt play him, realise his roster was illegal and call over a ref. The ref would have made a snap decision on the situation, taken the players to the TOs and explained his ruling. The TOs would have most likely agreed with his expert analysis & the coaches return to their game.
If I was the ref? I'd take his 3rd RR and decide whether to give him a zombie for the rest of the tourney after I looked into his eyes for 2.77 seconds.

As for changing the NAF rankings now, there is a case. But how strict do we want to be? All games count as 0-2 losses as per the defacto Oz forfeits rule? Bit harsh I think. Results stay the same? IMO something should be done.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by fnord23 »

If something were to be done about the eternal rankings results, I'm pretty much with rabid.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by sumbloke »

For the eternal rankings results I'd either go with Rabid's idea or have wins not count (also draws against higher-ranked opponents). He certainly doesn't deserve to gain NAF ranking from an illegal roster but it would be unfair to deny ranking gains to those who beat him.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Moraiwe »

If they enter ther NAF results with the correct TV difference, I don't see how you could argue against them standing.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by fnord23 »

It automatically recalculates everthing when results are changed. From 03 through to about 09 (i think) it wasnt possible apart from fixing tourney errors just after occurance.
Now anything can be changed, even stuff from 10 years ago.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by fnord23 »

Example: i was down as playing halflings at spike 04 in canada for years. I was told it couldnt be changed, also for years. I think it was removed (well results attributed to the correct player anyway) in 2011 or 12. But I had played halflings at least once between those years..... you can see that this would affect a LOT of rankings albeit insignificantly but affect nonetheless.
All done and recalculated by a few keystrokes.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Olaf_the_Stout »

Moraiwe wrote:If they enter ther NAF results with the correct TV difference, I don't see how you could argue against them standing.
Because he cheated, either inadvertantly or deliberately. IF you let the results stand then it only encourages others to do the same in the future.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Moraiwe »

The event results need fixing... The NAf rankings can retain integrity by using the formula that incorporates TV.

Edit: the idea that NAF rankings have any sort of integrity is of course, plain silly.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Devilsreject »

so we should just play what ever TV we want in tournies now, regardless of rules?

the whole idea of rankings is that the game is played on fair terms eg. same TV, unless stated by the rule packs which would sometimes give low tier teams an advantage (evening the playing field even more)

i dont take my ranking seriously, i know some people do and thats fine, i do think a ranking system needs accuracy as much as possible and this is an easy problem to remedy so why not?
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Olaf_the_Stout »

Devilsreject wrote:so we should just play what ever TV we want in tournies now, regardless of rules?

the whole idea of rankings is that the game is played on fair terms eg. same TV, unless stated by the rule packs which would sometimes give low tier teams an advantage (evening the playing field even more)

i dont take my ranking seriously, i know some people do and thats fine, i do think a ranking system needs accuracy as much as possible and this is an easy problem to remedy so why not?
Yeah, that's the thing for me. The rules said the teams should be XXX gp. One guy spent XXX +10 gp. Yes, it's only 10gp, but the point is one person, deliberately or accidentally is gaining an advantage. For some teams that may have meant they got an extra re-roll (as was the case here), other teams it just gives them an extra FF.

What the gain is doesn't matter. The point is all teams should play by the same rules. If that means people who accidentally break the rules get punished as harshly as those that do so deliberately, so be it.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Moraiwe »

Devilsreject wrote:so we should just play what ever TV we want in tournies now, regardless of rules?

the whole idea of rankings is that the game is played on fair terms eg. same TV, unless stated by the rule packs which would sometimes give low tier teams an advantage (evening the playing field even more)

i dont take my ranking seriously, i know some people do and thats fine, i do think a ranking system needs accuracy as much as possible and this is an easy problem to remedy so why not?
As I said, the event results should be reversed. But the NAF ranking does NOT require teams to be of the same TV, else there wouldn't be a formula which incorporates TV. Here we have a game(s) where one player had a 10TV advantage, but the game was played with both players aware of all the skills, players, stats, etc of both teams. No cheating occurred once the game started. Use the correct formula, with the correct TVs taken into account and you have accurate data for the game to be ranked.

Unless of course you're saying the formula used to determine rankings doesn't work, in which case why have them?
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Devilsreject »

If one player wasnt playing within the rules of the tournament, then he was cheating all game. It gave him more than a 10k advantage. But there is no levels of cheating, its black and white.
Moraiwe wrote:Unless of course you're saying the formula used to determine rankings doesn't work, in which case why have them?
Nah im not really sure on the formula and all that. I just think if you cheat on purpose or not, you cant have results count in rankings. Why should a player take a + or - to naf rankings in a game where the rules were not being obeyed? it should be a 0 in all respects
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by fnord23 »

The actual TV difference of 1, (110 vs 111) would make an almost insignificant change to ranking results. At the 1% of tourneys run progression style like cancon, its important, not so much for the other 99%, it doesnt matter what it is, as long as they are the same.

I really think the focus here should be on a potential penalty for the players NAF ranking and not on changing the WC teams or induvidual results. It doesnt matter cause its not going to change and there is still a negative perception of aussies OS due to THOSE threads. Not a massive one and i addressed these concerns, but please remember the international audience here guys.
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Re: workd cup. team error poll. what would u do?

Post by Moraiwe »

All the rules regarding NAf rankings were used. Two teams played with valid (even if not legal for this event) teams, under normal blood bowl rules. No NAF-Ranking cheating occurred. At 10k the player wasn't even denied any inducements. Had it been 50+, then there would be an issue.

The player cheated the tournament rules, not the NAF ranking rules. The two are not the same.
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