Tournament Scoring

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tribalsinner
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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by tribalsinner »

I think Everyone is over complicating everything and its only the same old names putting their own agendas forward. All it looks like from an outsiders perspective is a group of elitists trying to get what is best for them. We are trying to grow the hobby, not scare new people off.

I think beefy as organiser should just set everything out himself without polls, discussions and arguments. Then we should all just be organising teams and trying to get new people involved in the hobby in a friendly, community minded way.
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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by Thomsy »

Well said Tribal

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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by tribalsinner »

Thanks. We should be growing the hobby, supporting the suppliers and trying to get more people involved in the game.

Tournaments are a great way to showcase the hobby, play a few games with mates, try to get some cool prizes/trophies/bragging rights. Arguing over minor things such as tournament scoring etc just bring down the fun/community aspect of the hobby.

Beefy, You should just set everything as you think best and then it's just up to us, as the community, to support the tournament and have as much fun as possible.
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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by Rabid_Bogscum »

tribalsinner wrote:I think Everyone is over complicating everything and its only the same old names putting their own agendas forward. All it looks like from an outsiders perspective is a group of elitists trying to get what is best for them. We are trying to grow the hobby, not scare new people off.

I think beefy as organiser should just set everything out himself without polls, discussions and arguments. Then we should all just be organising teams and trying to get new people involved in the hobby in a friendly, community minded way.
I said it in a PM but with Thomsy saying bravo ive actually got the shits. Anyone that knows me knows I dont have a personal agenda here. Yes this conversation makes those contributing look like fuck wits... but really its an indictment on the rest of you who dont have an opinion as you sure as hell will have one later whether its just to cut people down who actually get off there arse and make things happen, or something veiled in some other way.

As the guy that pulled together AusBowl.. yes I just made the decisions myself.. but I also copped a shit load of flack along the way... its one of the reasons Spieroz left the hobby at the time and it sure as hell made me wonder why I was bothering doing anything for such an ungrateful bunch of people. So yes having taken things on Beefy should make the final decision on things in order for this to happen. The thing you lot need to understand which I know beefy does is that this event and ausbowl are in fact community tournaments. They are supposed to represent what we want which is in part why there are two of them instead of just one. So yes they require discussion. They require an attempt to gauge the community thinking because its much easier for beefy to point to the fact that he polled the community when the eventual detractors came out. Certainly when you get elements that let a tournament successfully run and then go all community minded and say it should never have been called AusBowl (which i was gutted by fyi) etc etc.. how can anyone honestly sit there and not realise we need these debates now and we need them finalised for us to move forward.

I know tribal is worn down by the constant 2 sides to everything.. because as a NSWelshman he has had to deal with it 2 and 3 times over. I am bloody over it too, I hate being part of this shit but I love my hobby and want whats best for it. Im not going to apologise for having an opinion. Ian and I are friends despite the fact we seem to have conflicting opinions on everything.. but without this debate which seems split in its preference.. we wouldnt have had a community member in Sumbloke come up with a compromise which so far is winning the poll. So yes the process is painful.. but hopefully the results speak for themselves and will result in less hating than I had to deal with.

God knows after a thousand food poisonings Beefy doesnt need that sort of crap to.
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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by tribalsinner »

I can't be bothered quoting the bits I want to.

It's not a community tournament as much as the idea is great. Over 1000 people registered on the site and maybe 8 are expressing views. I know you're sick of being the one debating things. But if we had a community where everyone talks then it would be fine but this isn't the case. It's the same people talking. This is good that we do have discussions. But you can't say its a community tourney or this is what the community wants.

31 people bothered to vote for the Ausbowl commitee. I think this is the best indication that we don't currently have the community for Continuous open ended discussion.

The tournament idea is great. The teams idea is great. Trying to build the community is great. But this tourney just needs one person to make the decisions and then everyone can move on.

I just worry that all this 'debate' will put off people. I already hold doubts on the viability of Ausbowl 2. People need to take a step back and look at all these posts from a newbies point of view. It doesn't look cohesive or welcoming.
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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by SinisterDexter »

tribalsinner wrote:I already hold doubts on the viability of Ausbowl 2.
I don't!

AusBowl II is a certainty. Given that a new little pocket of the community has just popped its head up, we may even have a Northern Territory team!

As much as these arguments do seem to be a select few with apparently polarised opinions, this does seem to be confined to the NSW section of the community. Let em argue, that's what forums are for. Beefy seems to be taking a fairly balanced and responsible approach to this and I certainly hope the team tournament goes well. Actually, now that it is underway, I must admit that I *love* the idea of having the rotating schedule of team tourney one year, state vs state the next, as two different and interesting tournament formats for those of us who are interested and able to engage on a national scale.

The thing to realise is that not everyone can do that, and many prefer their local leagues to anything else. A community takes all sorts, and those that are interested enough to contribute should, at least, be heard. But I see a multi-faceted, interdependent but still regionalised, robust and friendly community in Australia. I think the future is bright, not just because of things like the AusBowls (team and SvS), but because of the sheer weight of different BB offerings currently around.

In Adelaide we have two smallish leagues (AFOUL and SABBL), one large league (CCKUP), a major annual tournament (SSB), an annual dungeonbowl tournament (ADBC) and an annual Streetbowl tournament (Hindley Street Bowl). We also have a dedicated online tournament (Drakebowl). Up until recently we had a local magazine and we are well represented on at least four forums I know about. The same names do pop up as organisers, but there is still a dedicated following of players. It is this kind of diversity that defines our community and will keep it growing strong. I don't think a few arguments over format will necessarily drive newbies away.

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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by Olaf_the_Stout »

Yeah, I agree with SinDex in regards to AusBowl II, I have no doubts whatsoever about it. It will definitely go ahead and I would not be surprised if, numbers-wise, it was the biggest ever Blood Bowl event held in Australia.

I haven't chimed into the conversation for this much because I doubt that I will be able to attend next year. Having said that, I think if you're going to have a team championship it seems a bit silly to be going with individual scoring. The team aspect of this tournament is what it should be all about, so why not make the scoring be all about how your team does vs the other team. So I personally would go with Rabid's suggestion.

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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by BeefyGoodness »

Hi All,

Woah, geez is all I can say.

I know that people are passionate about the game and that everyone really has the best interests of the community at heart.

To tribal: Honestly man I started this whole process out with that very mindset, but I will be the first to admit that I made some mistakes with those assumptions and also completely missed the points of some aspect of the tourney organisation. Without putting stuff out here and getting feedback I would have taken some things for granted and probably pissed a lot of players off by enforcing my benevolent beefy dictatorship.

I know that things happen with that level of leadership but lets be honest, there is plenty of time still for these kinds of discussions.

To be honest this is the last important part to really be decided and as rabid did mention despite all the heated feelings that have been raised (People need to remember that this is not a true communication format and parts of the communication are very open to user interpretation e.g. Thomsy's comment being misinterpreted), Sumbloke's suggestion is a very valid one and seems to be very well received.

If people can just vote on this last option then I will get started on the players pack and we can all get started on Tribals suggestion.

Cheers guys. Remember that at the end of the day we are all mates getting together to have a laugh.

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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by Rabid_Bogscum »

sumbloke wrote:How about option #3 (feel free to adjust the numbers):

Each team win earns the team 30 points, a team tie earns 10 points
Each game win earns the team 10 points, a game draw earns the team 5 points

So a 4-0 win will be 70 points, a 2.5-1.5 win would be 55, a 2-2 draw would be 30.
Doubleskulls' example comes out as 12-6-6 (six 2.5-1.5 round wins) as 330 versus 21-1-2 (five 4-0 round wins and a 1.5-2.5 loss) as 365. This means the team that has five stomping victories beats the team that just scrapes a win in all six rounds, but anything closer is likely to be the team with six wins coming out on top.
Found it... and my oh my wasn't there some fun discussion on this one. Isnt it funny that WA essentially reverted to the Doubleskulls model :P
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Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by smeborg »

doubleskulls wrote:I think its different when the teams all play each other like at AusBowl.
I suggest that is an important point.

I thought the World Cup scoring system worked well for the World Cup. However, I would point out that Team ANZAC got a good result (10th out of 80 teams) by winning many, if not most, of their rounds by just 3.5 to 2.5 (which would also have produced a good result under other scoring systems). And I am not aware of a "problem" or "anomaly" caused at ASC3 under its scoring system.

In principle I would not be unhappy for ASC to adopt a system where the result of the team round was the important score (e.g. a 6-0 win counts the same as a 3.5 to 2.5 win except for tie-break purposes). I think team events in other sports tend to use something like that. Perhaps models can be found, say in some Olympics events (chess?). We don't need to re-invent the wheel.

If we proceed cautiously and by analogy with other sports, I think we will find a good solution.

All the best.

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