Ok kick me

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Grumpsh
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Ok kick me

Post by Grumpsh »

Yay so ATC 2 is over and it didnt fall in a heap. But already here are the criticisms i would make.

1-Instead of 1-4 skills a round i would go with 1-3. Probrably with 0-6 7-14 15+ brackets.

2- I would probrably have less "special skills" overall. Or a double for a non loner option.

3- The concept of the Cards was good and it did make people think about what teams they were taking, but maybe something a little less powerful might be in order.

4- Once i state something i need to stick with it and not try and change midstream to try and make people happy. It seemed to cause more problems than it solved.

So yeah i want to perfect this system. Ultimately i hope i can convince someone else to adopt it, run it bottle it and franchise it. So any Criticism, constructive or otherwise would be appreciated.

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Post by BeefyGoodness »

I'd say it was a good result. I think all those things listed are on the money, but you achieved what I believe you set out to achieve with teh format.

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Re: Ok kick me

Post by redcard »

i think you are pretty much on the money
we all know my love of cards that destroyed me

the progression was interesting when i thought about it if you play on the top table to start with you tend to get tougher opponents and less skills boggy being an example of this he got 1 skills first 3 games. then when you have played the top and start to play down you are taking on people who have milked stunties ( although they were tough) and other games for a heck of a lot more skills. I guess my problem with this is that it evens out the swiss ranking making it harder for the top teams.

then add cards into the mix and you end up with my last 2 games where i was 190k down 100k of which i could do nothing about and 150k down 100 of which i could do nothing about. a wiz or even a re roll would have helped in either case

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Re: Ok kick me

Post by Greyhound »

Redcard, I probably misunderstand you, if you were down 150k you should have got a wizard, right?

Cards never had a huge impact in my game, so I don't see them as overpowered but I heard stories :) so I can totally see why you'd want to see them go. Not an issue for me to have them in or out.

On the list given to us there are 34 teams (I thought it was 33, must be down to some anomalies).
As a percentage we still had:
- 18% of Orcs and
- 15% of Dwarves.
So 33% of teams shared 2 races (both showing similar, yet different playstile), which is (IMHO) something we can improve on in a game with 22 choices.

Well done to Chaos and Chaos pact (2 teams, 6% of the tournament) for selecting 2 races with easy access to claws, well suited against the orcs and dwarves.

I really liked the fact that the tournament encouraged teams to go out there and pick some less competitive races.
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Re: Ok kick me

Post by redcard »

no wizard cos 100k was from 2 cards they got and in the couple of games they hurt eg 1 game was a ball clone and bomber hurting dwarves big time

in the last game they boneheaded a whole cage making the td defense incredibly hard

if the team diff had modified the cards it would have been different

i blame boggy i was going to take undead a very popular tourney team which by luck would have got 2 cards.

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Post by Greyhound »

No Wood elves and undead WAS a surprise.
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Post by fnord23 »

Agree with all your points Grumpsh & would add the following:

- The "Blitz, Pass, Move & Handoff only" system for games running late wasn't good IMO, it clearly gives an advantage to the agility teams & because neither me nor Beefy had seen it before, it made our turns almost as long (OK lets be honest mine mainly) as they would have been normally! I suggest 10mins each on a chess clock 20mins from time instead; worked at the WCII & when Rabid introduced them at EucBowl. (at least I think it was EucBowl, so many tourneys...& beers).

- On the cards (I really hate the cards in general, so...) I think they should have been based on tiers rather than what teams were taken at the tourney, I mean facing a Cheese Dorf team with 2 more skills than me was bad enough, but he gets a card as well? Sure I got a B Babe & a Busload of Fans (which BTW I really liked as a concept) as inducements but.... So a suggestion would be 50k card for stunties & maybe a B Babe for teams least represented at the tourney.
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Re: Ok kick me

Post by Grumpsh »

Oh yeah the hurry up and finish rule did not work as intended.

Here was the thought process. You don't want to call a game with a couple of turns to go if they can score. But sometimes its not about can they score, its can they stall for long enough to not get scored on in return. So the idea was that the game would boil down to the ball carrier and the guy chasing him. None of the periphery just get the ball move the ball and then score. It means taking risks we'd normally avoid. And those risks when its close means that the thinking slowed it down just as much.

I think a simpler method would literally be a 4 minute turn counter for those behind at half time. Or something similar.

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Post by annachie »

Hmm, hows about instead of the caeds a 10,000 or 20,000 drop in TV. Personally I never played a card in my games.
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Re: Ok kick me

Post by Nubs11 »

Personally I love cards in a league format, however in a tournament not so much because tournaments tend to be more serious' events and cards add in a LOT of random elements, and some can be over powered. On the flip side of that, I definitely see your reasoning behind doing it to encourage a variety of teams.
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Post by Moraiwe »

Anything which makes tournaments less serious is a good thing. That cards were going to be so prevalent made me want to attend this event more than any other rules proposed. Sadly, life and family got in the way again.
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Post by Olaf_the_Stout »

Grumpsh wrote:I think a simpler method would literally be a 4 minute turn counter for those behind at half time. Or something similar.
This is what I have done for SSB the last 2 years. It seems to work ok.
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Re: Ok kick me

Post by smeborg »

Grumpsh - here is what I put on the wrong thread:
*********************************************************
Well done Grumpsh and Kstarter, this was one of the most enjoyable and sociable tourneys I have been to.

I had great fun at the table, too, all my games were interesting, tending towards wild, not to say plain mad. Perhaps 2 cards was rather a large handicap, I had 4 games in which I had 2 good cards, they may well have influenced the result in my favour in at least 2 games. But I quite like the concept of a handicap for lone representatives of a race (and this was a reason I took Chaos). But perhaps 1 card might be enough (it's hard to tell, I had 2 games in which both my cards were useless).

A lot of variables in the format (this is not a complaint), perhaps as much mayhem could be had with fewer variables. I got confused in the days before the tourney with the changes, but once I realised things might change even more, i was quite comfortable with that, and took it in my stride.

All the best.
**************
It occurs to me that other forms of "handicap" are available, if you want to avoid the randomness of cards (some 50,000 cards are completely useless, others can be as good as a Wizard). For example, you could reward unique races with a free skill before the first game. I like the idea of a reward for unique races, as well as a penalty for the most common ones (which would have been Dwarfs and Orcs in this case).

I don't think you can beat chess clocks (EucBowl and World Cup) for a clean, simple and fair method of ensuring everybody finishes on time. Just beg, steal or borrow them from your friendly local chess club. You only need to impose clocks on the obviously slow games.

Having a stock of boards supplied by local BBers would help - I think everyone who flies to tourneys nowadays has got into the habit of travelling light without a board (this practice is positively encouraged by current airline baggage policy).

Hope that helps.

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