Mirror-matching the 1st round

General Discussion, Not necessarily related to Bloodbowl
Post Reply
User avatar
Moraiwe
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 5739
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:11 pm
BB League: MBBL
Favourite Race: Khemri
Location: Richmond, VIC

Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Moraiwe »

Simple question, but I'm assuming many answers. What effect on a tournament would occur if we paired 1st round opponents to maximise the amount of mirror-matches?
I feel only two things: nothing and nothingness.

User avatar
Rabid_Bogscum
Frank N Stein
Frank N Stein
Posts: 16322
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 6:19 am
BB League: SLOBB
Favourite Race: Skaven
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Rabid_Bogscum »

Not much to be honest. i dont see a huge argument for or against as long as people dont target a certain mirror.

I like if I know I want and easy win first round I might take Khemri so I get matched up with you :)
NAF VP
ATC Champions '12, '16, '18
NSW State Rep '11, '13, '15 (Champs), '17 (Champs)

Champion: Leviathan '08, Euc Bowl '08 & '18, Sandgroper V, SSB '11, Dragon Bowl '12, TSP '13, GOM '13, Gosford Gauntlet '14, Jokerbowl '15, MOAB '16, Cancon '17, NSW Open '19, Nuffles Bash at the Beach '20

User avatar
Moraiwe
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 5739
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:11 pm
BB League: MBBL
Favourite Race: Khemri
Location: Richmond, VIC

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Moraiwe »

Yep, that whole 1 NAF games' worth of Khemri experience you have is imposing.
I feel only two things: nothing and nothingness.

User avatar
D_Arquebus
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 6578
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:45 pm
BB League: SLOBB + SWL
Location: Sydney

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by D_Arquebus »

Maybe less people coming? :P .... Some people really really don't like mirror matches...

That said, I find even Dworf v Dworf an interesting challenge.

Some change may occur based on what you plan to do with the non-mirrors. I think Eucbowl for instance helps a bit with variety of the rule set with the newly introduced "Best in Race" awards. So maybe people will try to determine if it's an advantge to play a mirror or whatever you'll do to non-mirrored teams and play variety instead.
NAF Regional Tourney Organiser (Oz/ NZ)

13th Worldwide to 24 Teams :)

Results by Team: Play the 24+2 :)
Sport: Necro, Ogre
Painted: 24hr Painting Challenge
Wins: 15/26 Teams (enjoyin the 26)
Podiums: 25/26

www.ausbowl.com or Ausbowl (FB) - Oz BB
NZ Blood Bowl Community (FB) - NZ BB

User avatar
lolvenom
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 2659
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:25 pm
BB League: SLOBB
Favourite Race: Ogre

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by lolvenom »

I would be inclined to play the most preposterous race I could think of just so I didn't have to face boring mirror matches.

User avatar
Moraiwe
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 5739
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:11 pm
BB League: MBBL
Favourite Race: Khemri
Location: Richmond, VIC

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Moraiwe »

How are mirror matches boring? I don't understand that at all.
I feel only two things: nothing and nothingness.

User avatar
D_Arquebus
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 6578
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:45 pm
BB League: SLOBB + SWL
Location: Sydney

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by D_Arquebus »

They can be more swingy/ one sided them some due to same strengths and weaknesses of team. An early run of luck (good or bad) either way can give the edge to one team and it's then a long way to the full time whistle.

Personally, I enjoy them as much as other games. Different challenges and all that. But I did call it out that many people I've chatted to over a table in the last decade+ disagree :P
NAF Regional Tourney Organiser (Oz/ NZ)

13th Worldwide to 24 Teams :)

Results by Team: Play the 24+2 :)
Sport: Necro, Ogre
Painted: 24hr Painting Challenge
Wins: 15/26 Teams (enjoyin the 26)
Podiums: 25/26

www.ausbowl.com or Ausbowl (FB) - Oz BB
NZ Blood Bowl Community (FB) - NZ BB

User avatar
Moraiwe
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 5739
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:11 pm
BB League: MBBL
Favourite Race: Khemri
Location: Richmond, VIC

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Moraiwe »

Again, it seems I don't understand. How does a mirror match become more swingy than any ordinary match? I mean, that 'early run of luck' you describe can be true of any game.
I feel only two things: nothing and nothingness.

User avatar
Rabid_Bogscum
Frank N Stein
Frank N Stein
Posts: 16322
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 6:19 am
BB League: SLOBB
Favourite Race: Skaven
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Rabid_Bogscum »

Moraiwe wrote:Yep, that whole 1 NAF games' worth of Khemri experience you have is imposing.
its now 4 young man
NAF VP
ATC Champions '12, '16, '18
NSW State Rep '11, '13, '15 (Champs), '17 (Champs)

Champion: Leviathan '08, Euc Bowl '08 & '18, Sandgroper V, SSB '11, Dragon Bowl '12, TSP '13, GOM '13, Gosford Gauntlet '14, Jokerbowl '15, MOAB '16, Cancon '17, NSW Open '19, Nuffles Bash at the Beach '20

User avatar
lolvenom
Star Player
Star Player
Posts: 2659
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:25 pm
BB League: SLOBB
Favourite Race: Ogre

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by lolvenom »

Instead of the challenge of working out how paper can beat scissors or avoid being blunted by rock, it's just two scissors banging themselves on against each other.

User avatar
D_Arquebus
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 6578
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:45 pm
BB League: SLOBB + SWL
Location: Sydney

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by D_Arquebus »

Moraiwe wrote:Again, it seems I don't understand. How does a mirror match become more swingy than any ordinary match? I mean, that 'early run of luck' you describe can be true of any game.
Because different teams (Rock/ Paper/ Scissor, as well as more specifically different races - Skaven vs Elf for instance) can react differently.

But the same race more closely uses the same plays... if one is suddenly 'better' then the other due to for instance a few Saurus more for the opposition, then they are playing the same game style at a more extreme disadvantage. ST is the same, Speed is the same, Skill options are the same... but now you are players down (most likely scenario) or special play makers are out... etc. Or even just the momentum you needed was stolen early and you are in a tightly matched arm wrestle which doesn't allow for making up the difference.

Dworfs can't suddenly elf if they are losing the attrition battle to Dworfs... and the ubiquitous block (ie spammed Skills) and speed is the same, so can't even outmaneuver. Compare to vs Chaos for instance, where the Dworfs can leverage better AV, Thick Skull, Block access, cheap RRs, to try to overcome the faster and temporarily better performing Chaos team.
NAF Regional Tourney Organiser (Oz/ NZ)

13th Worldwide to 24 Teams :)

Results by Team: Play the 24+2 :)
Sport: Necro, Ogre
Painted: 24hr Painting Challenge
Wins: 15/26 Teams (enjoyin the 26)
Podiums: 25/26

www.ausbowl.com or Ausbowl (FB) - Oz BB
NZ Blood Bowl Community (FB) - NZ BB

User avatar
Dazedmw
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 6089
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:32 am
BB League: MBBL
Favourite Race: Undead
Location: Melbourne, Vic

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Dazedmw »

My take on what Hutchie is saying is that without the variation in rosters clouding the issue they see the luck more clearly and don't like it.
Centaur of Attention - Season 21 MBBL

http://melbourne.bloodbowlleague.com/de ... p=tm&t=cen

User avatar
D_Arquebus
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 6578
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:45 pm
BB League: SLOBB + SWL
Location: Sydney

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by D_Arquebus »

No... I'm suggesting that perfectly matched teams feel an imbalance in early luck (re CAS etc) because they are both trying to do the same stuff in the same way. And suddenly, one of them is doing rhe exact same stuff with lower TV...
NAF Regional Tourney Organiser (Oz/ NZ)

13th Worldwide to 24 Teams :)

Results by Team: Play the 24+2 :)
Sport: Necro, Ogre
Painted: 24hr Painting Challenge
Wins: 15/26 Teams (enjoyin the 26)
Podiums: 25/26

www.ausbowl.com or Ausbowl (FB) - Oz BB
NZ Blood Bowl Community (FB) - NZ BB

User avatar
Dazedmw
2011 Legend
2011 Legend
Posts: 6089
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:32 am
BB League: MBBL
Favourite Race: Undead
Location: Melbourne, Vic

Re: Mirror-matching the 1st round

Post by Dazedmw »

D_Arquebus wrote:No... I'm suggesting that perfectly matched teams feel an imbalance in early luck (re CAS etc) because they are both trying to do the same stuff in the same way. And suddenly, one of them is doing rhe exact same stuff with lower TV...
Yes but I think the point still stands.

The lower TV applies the same if its not a mirror match. It's just that its not as clear.
Centaur of Attention - Season 21 MBBL

http://melbourne.bloodbowlleague.com/de ... p=tm&t=cen

Post Reply